I just had a very ... interesting ? conversation with my husband about our "jobs" - i.e., mom responsibilities v. dad responsibilities. I asked him what he thought they should be, even if that's not how they are now (or ever will be).
Not surprisingly, I object.
But I happen to be feeling really anxious and defensive over this.
I just spent 2 hrs on lds.org looking through articles about a woman's role in the home. Never really found an answer on this.
So I'm asking you, dear readers. Please. Share with me your insight, opinions, experience, etc. When it comes to the responsibilities of the home, where is the division of duty?
As Mark sees it, the mom should do pretty much everything that has anything to do with the house with the exception of auto repair, major (and most minor) household repairs and getting the trash to the curb on pick up days. Those are his along with the biggie, going to work/providing for the family.
Then there are the shared responsibilities of dinner dishes, mowing the lawn, okay, all yard/garden maintenance, bathing kids, and getting kids to bed.
The rest is mine.
All shopping. All laundry. All meals. All cleaning. All bill-paying. All banking. All organization. All record-retention. All paperwork. All insurance everything. All doctor & medical stuff.
All.
And then of course everything that goes with raising and caring for and teaching, nurturing, disciplining, feeding, clothing, stimulating, correcting, and referee-ing children. (Oh yeah, and bearing them as well. But that's a minor detail, right?)
And if I want to start selling stuff on ebay or babysitting or teaching lessons to bring in some extra cash that would be good too.
Okay. Now that I have that off my chest...
Really, I want some feedback. I want to know if I'm just being a baby about this or if anyone else sees any inequality here. What does everyone else do? Do other husbands clean toilets and mop floors? Am I a shrew for thinking mine should take his turn? Does the term "homemaker" mean I have to do everything?
What say ye?
March 2023
9 months ago
13 comments:
Well, my husband was raised to help out around the house. Sure the house work is maily the woman's responsibility, but it doesn't hurt to have some help occasionally. Not to mention that a woman is on call 24/7 - there are no sick days for us ladies! That doesn't mean we save all the work for the hubby when it's "his turn." We're a team, right? I will say this for my house - you poo in the pot and you can take your turn cleaning it! (That includes children when they are old enough to learn how to clean.)
This sounds a lot like what my mom keeps telling me needs to happen in our home...drives me crazy. For some people I'm sure it works, but I prefer sharing duties. Luckily James agrees. He's even pointed out to my mom that I don't ever get a day off.
I can tell you that when the person that sealed James and I spoke to us before the sealing, he stressed that we were a team. That James could help out with the housework and other "women's" duties. I in turn could help in areas that are considered "man's" work. It works really well for us...and I can always point to the sealer telling us to do it this way.
As far as lds.org, here is a simple question by Elder Scott in October 2008 General Conference ("Honor the Priesthood and Use it Well," Ensign Nov 2008 44-47):
"Will you consider that in the next few minutes you and I will have a private priesthood interview? ...I will also ask you to consider how consistently you use your priesthood to bless others. My intent is not to criticize but to help increase the benefits that flow from your use of the priesthood. ...Are you kind and supportive of your own wife and children? Do you assist your wife by doing some of the household chores? Do you lead out in family activities such as scripture study, family prayer, and family home evening, or does your wife fill in the gap your lack of attention leaves in the home? Do you tell her you love her?"
Did you catch the question of assisting your wife doing household chores? Here's a little more from the same talk...
"Brethren, I now speak of how the priesthood should be used to bless the lives of others, especially the daughters of Father in Heaven.
The family proclamation states that a husband and wife should be equal partners. I feel assured that every wife in the Church would welcome that opportunity and support it. Whether it occurs or not depends upon the husband. Many husbands practice equal partnership with their companion to the benefit of both and the blessing of their children. However, many do not. I encourage any man who is reluctant to develop an equal partnership with his wife to obey the counsel inspired by the Lord and do it. Equal partnership yields its greatest benefit when both husband and wife seek the will of the Lord in making important decisions for themselves and for their family."
Not to be overly wordy, but...
Right now Jon is working 2 full-time jobs. He still takes a break in the evening to eat with us, play with the kids, and talk with me. Once kids are down he goes back to work until 2:30am, sometimes later. So he hasn't been able to be as much help lately as in the past, but is still willing to help me.
Guys usually don't just notice things that need to be done the way we do, so I have to let him know "these are the things I need help with today, or before a certain day of the week." Those things have included cleaning bathrooms, mopping the floor, cutting the boys' hair, and moving heavy things. He also volunteers to help me in the kitchen after dinner, which makes that cleaning job go 3 times as fast! He takes care of the trash and outdoor work, although the kids and I take out trash, too. He has never told me, "No, I won't do that. It's your job." He knows I can't do it all alone - that's totally unrealistic - especially while our kids are young.
Even though he is busy with so much outside work, I still need his help to make our house run well (that's the whole reason he works to provide, right? so our household can run; for our family?). If he were only working 1 job I would ask for much more help :o) (Who says my job is 24/7 and his is only 8-5pm M-F?) As it is, we just get by on what the kids and I can do most of the time, so the house isn't as clean as I'd like. I don't see it as a total divide of certain duties. The heavy physical labor I can't do is, by necessity, his, but I totally believe in TEAMWORK. When we work as a team we show love to each other and both appreciate what the other does for our family.
I could say more, but I'll stop!!! :o)
OK, I've said WAY too much, but... I prefer to do all the shopping. I prefer to wash laundry. I ask him to cook meals when I'm beat. I know about our dr. visits, so take care of medical insurance stuff, but he does car insurance and the rest. I used to insist on being in charge of the budget, but when it became too much for me, Jon stepped up to the plate and took over finances. That took a huge strain off of me. He realizes that what I do at home is also draining and that we're all happiest when we help each other.
READ THE FAMILY PROCLAMATION! It says that fathers and mothers are obligated to help one another as equal partners; that mothers are "primarily" responsible for the nurture of their children; not "solely" responsible. It's all about TEAMWORK. I'll be quiet now.
I think the theme here is that it comes down to team work. But it is important to remember that every team is different. What works for our family may not work for yours. I think it is smart to sit down and talk about what you both feel should happen and then figure out the best way to make it work so you are both happy.
Don't get caught up on everything you are doing and everything he isn't. That doesn't help.
And ask. Men struggle with being able to discern what we need or want. Instead of getting mad that he hasn't figured it out, just tell him.
Pray. Pray together, pray alone, pray as a family. Nothing fixes problems in a marriage faster than kneeling beside your eternal companion, holding hands and pleading with your eternal father for help.
Then get up and go to work.
Whew! I might be just as long winded as the others on here, but I have a lot to say too!
A couple of years ago after I had Andrew, and was now staying home, We had to have the big sit down talk about dividing up the duties. We wrote down everything we could think of. EVERYTHING. We then volunteered for the things we liked to do. For ex. Jesse likes to fix things around the house. I like to mow the lawn (I know, I'm weird) Jesse hates to mow the lawn so this works out. So we first got the jobs that we LIKED to do. Everything left over we just assigned. Like, I HATE doing dishes. But if I make the dinner, then Jesse cleans up and vice/versa. (EVEN IF HE WORKED ALL DAY! HE ATE OFF THOSE DISHES BUT I JUST SPENT 1-2 HOURS MAKING IT!) But who ever feeds lunch and breakfast to the kids does those dishes.
Jesse also deeply loathes cleaning the bathroom. I don't like it by any means, but I'll do it. I loathe taking out the garbage, so he does it. You get the picture.
After this conversation I then took inventory for a week of all the things that still weren't getting done. Sorting mail, cleaning up the bath toys, etc. We had a second meeting about all of those.
We're also getting Maddi involved more these days, she sets the table and cleans her room.
I'm better at the financial end of things, so I do that. Which includes all the insurance stuff as well. Jesse does all the bathing of the kiddos.
If you wanted to get technical you could sit down and figure out how many hours YOU spend on everything, and see how it matches up. But be careful not to let it lead to you taking score of each other, just try to even things out.
On Saturdays we each "volunteer" for a major duty: cleaning kitchen, bathrooms, vaccuming. All that stuff. Jesse lives here so he contributes to the household.
We both found though, that when we notice the other working hard, it motivated us to work even harder at our stuff. There is nothing more discouraging then working hard at something (housework or job work) and then looking over and seeing your spouse doing nothing.
Which reminds me, we also have our built in down time, Jesse gets every Tues night to do what ever the heck he wants. It helps to make me not feel taken advantage of. I see him working the other night. I get Thurs, and we both get Sundays.
Off course all of this went out the window when I was put on bedrest, but what can I do?
I don't know, this is just how we worked it out. We're a team and I know if we both feel like the other one is trying, it motivates us to get our stuff done. But do I agree that because he works, that's his only job? No, he still has the jobs of being a husband and father and he needs to contribute time and energy to that. The kids won't understand that the money that paid for their living expenses was in place of the attention they should have received from their father. I mean Jeanette, did my (Lisa's)childhood mean nothing to you? lol And the example of their father helping ease their mother's burden is priceless. You can't substitute that example.
But with all that said, we do vary from the schedule time to time. If Jesse has a big deadline coming up, I'll pick of the slack that day, week or whatever because I know he'll pick up right where he left off. Or if I'm sick or on bedrest, he knows that I'll just work that much harder when I can.
Give and take. We've finally built in that trust ( and you KNOW how long that took!)
Anyway, hope that helps. It works for us, but you just need to figure out what works for you guys.
Love you!!
Wow, that's a tough one. And you've gotten some great advice.
Our sealer told us to always be looking for ways to serve each other. Even now, I always have to remind myself of this. But it always works, it makes me happy to do something for him.
Wherever you decide to draw the line - or fade to gray - you both should feel good about it. And be a team. Good luck.
My husband, Michael, and I share the work load. I really hate cleaning bathroom so he does that. I clean the kitchen. We both cook. We both keep the living room and our bedroom clean. I am usually the one who vacuums. Michael will take the laundry to the laundry room and do it. When he brings the laundry back, we both fold it. This systen works for us.
(BTW I met you once when I was visiting my sister, Amy.)
Well I see that I am the only guy to say anything, so I might be putting my safety at risk here, but here it goes.
I want to start by saying that I do not say this because I am great at it myself, I just believe it is right.
The scriptures and the lord are very clear on how we are to deal with each other in every situation. Paul said that we should esteem others as “greater than ourselves“. The lord said that we should go the extra mile. King Benjamin said that he (as the king) had labored with his own hands to serve his people and if he (their king) did labor for them how much more should they labor to serve one another.
It is very clear that we should all be looking to see how much we can serve each other, not how little. The statement of the lord " Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.” should always be in our thoughts. If we are not looking always to be of the most serves possible to those around us we are not completely giving ourselves to the lord. We are in effect saying to the lord tell me exactly how much I have to do for you, so that I do not do too much. We must remember every time we deal with another person it is like we are dealing with the lord.
Paul had the best advice on marriage, he said that the wife should be loving and submissive to her husband and that the husband should give his life for his wife, as the lord gave his life for the church. How did the lord give his life for the church? Completely, I believe that a husband should sacrifice everything he possibly can for his wife and that includes all leisure time, hobbies, needs and desires, everything as the lord did for us. Husbands should also remember that in giving his life for the church the lord suffered greatly, which means that as we endeavor to give our lives to our wives we should not give only what is convenient, we should truly give everything we have.
I think that we should all look to the needs of the other before we look to the needs of ourselves. I believe that as we go through the hard process of learning to focus on others more than ourselves we will truly come to have heaven on earth.
If anyone wants my scriptural backing just let me know and I will send you chapter and verse.
Again, I do not say it because I am very good at it, just because I think it is right.
Jeremy McQuivey
Hey Jeanette,
According to salary.com, if a stay at home mom were to be paid for her work, she would earn a little over $134,000 per year due to all of the combined job descriptions such as the ones you mentioned (CEO, maid, chef, psychologist, teacher, etc). Just an interesting tidbit you might want to share with your husband.
Jeanette - Hi, Matt here. Remember me?
This is an especially tricky question because the Church has not, despite what Jeremy says, offered a clear and consistent stance. Thirty years ago President Kimball said women should not work outside the home; in the past ten years President Hinckley said it was permissible. Forty years ago a husband "presiding" meant that he made all the decisions; today, we are encouraged to work together in more egalitarian ways.
This causes problems because we get our languages mixed - some people cite older ideas, some newer, and both, quite rightly, claim some degree of authority.
I, personally, would go with the latter; we are told, after all, that the current prophets trump older.
Here's a couple links that might be interesting.
http://www.feministmormonhousewives.org/?p=2539
http://www.feministmormonhousewives.org/?p=2552
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